Feedback A brief note about feedback When I started off developing Foxy for previous TM controllers some years ago, I set up a Comments page where I posted up the feedback users had sent me or posted elsewhere on the net. When I was struggling to get round a programming problem, or the time and pressure was getting me down, I'd go through and read all the feedback on that comments page, and the effect it had and still has was very uplifting and inspirational. And I think it would be a good idea if we had such a site for the Cougar as well. If you're enjoying your Cougar, its software, whatever .... then send some feedback to Fruity and she'll get your comments up here. The effect it can have on the developers and guys helping out on the site is good for them, for you, and for our Thrustmaster community ;) Thanks to Fruity for organising this and keeping it up to date! Most recent comments are first. Your comments 304.) "Well I've had my Cougar for about 2 weeks - got it up and running - and I'm really as close to simming Nirvana as I'm ever going to be. Thanks to TrackIR3 and my Cougar - I'm living an absolute dream. If you're one to own a Cougar, the effort in getting the little darling up and running is simply a labour of love. Being in South Africa, it was only through concerted effort of our fantastic online community here that we were able to aquire them (9 all in all - mine was hand delivered my an online mate - who happens to be a commercial pilot). The only issue I have, is what will I do should something need replacing! I swear I will cry - no joke!! If you are a flight-simmer - it really is as simple as the following - do whatever it takes to own a Cougar - I knew how brilliant they were, but even so, it was even better than I could ever have hoped for. To the guys and gals at Thrustmaster - YOU ROCK THE SOCKS!! *Here kitty, kitty, kitty*" Dan "McNAB" Taylor 303.) "I used to love my Cougar ... you know, she had that hard, metallic way of telling you that you were going to make that 9G turn just fine. But then it all changed ... I ordered and installed an FCC kit from Arend and now that old love affair has blossomed into something indescribable. I think - IMHO of course - there is probably no other controller combination available to the simming world that can provide that feeling of realism and immersion. I am one happy Viper driver right now!" Larry "Blaster" Cobb 302.) "I just set up my Cougar last night. What a delight. Being a veteran of Thrustmaster having the f16-flcs, tqs and ers setup for many years, I was very excited to get my new Cougar and start flying. I had some reservations after reading the forums about people having probs, But!!! Set up was a breeze, about 20 mins to install, flash and patch and I was up and flying. Out of the box...no probs." Ernie "Ernster" Ketcham 301.) "I love my Cougar. It was the best money I ever spent, and I also had the X 45. I used to have probs with the rudder not centering properly, maybe a few of u had that prob, but it was a fantastic stick for its price. But the Cougar has no other that can compare, CH products is the closest." sgtkoolaid 300.) "I swear by the Cougar. Never had probs with it and it works perfectly well. Also the immersion of flying an F-16 can't be better then flying a copy of the real thing." Dirk "Pacman" Verbist 299.) "I've had mine for a few days and love it." i2u2c2r2d2 298.) "I purchased my Cougar the day they were released in Australia. I fly with it every chance I get and have never had any problems. I did look into mods once but decided that after paying AU$650.00 for the beast, I would have a very hard time convincing the better half that I needed to spend another $400 to $500 to upgrade it. I have no regrets in buying the Cougar and would never part with it." Crapcake 297.) "Do you remember how much sweeter that FLCS LE felt than the regular plastic FLCS? Well, take that, factor it by 10, and you'll have an idea for the feel of the COUGAR! I fly Jet sims as well as props and rotors, and there is NOTHING to compare with the Cougar ... and I mean the STOCK OUT OF THE BOX - NUTTIN DONE TO IT ('cept maybe fix the speedbrake and dogfight switch alignment) STICK THERE EVER WAS or EVER WILL BE! PERIOD! Every one of my squadmates use the Saitek, and swear by it, except for one ... He came thru town 5 months ago, and gave my Cougar a try ... and he's now a Cougar owner. We've BOTH been trying to tell the others that "unless you can get your hands on it, and SEE what it's capable of - you have NO idea what you are missing." Example? Air refuelling! I hear this all the time from them. "I can't get that fine control I need to do the refueling. If I just go into an instant mission JUST to refuel, I can set up my stick curves so that I can succeed, but that profile is no good for fighting" and I say "Hmm, I can set up dual curves in my Cougar for that with no problem. Sigh, too bad for you though." They love what they have, but they won't kill for it. Here's my feeling about what you asked. 1. There is nothing better, stock, out of the box - unmodded - than the Cougar. 2. If you take a look at the Cougar owner registration, you'll see over 500 REGISTERED owners of the Cougar. Extrapolate = thousands that aren't registered + the ones that are here in this forum to help us all. MOST of the Cougar owners are UNMODDED, those within these forum walls are either modded or leaning that way. I think what you're seeing in this forum is the sum of experience bound together in an attempt to make the best thing out there PERFECT. I own a Cougar now that I've flown for a year, and love it. But I want a level of accuracy with my guns that I cannot achieve (though a few others can) with the stock gimbals and potentiometers. So I will be fully modding my Cougar to take me to the next "plane" (nyuck nyuck, punny). If these mods were not here, I would STILL own a Cougar. 'nuf said." Trilogy 296.) "This is the best HOTAS/Fighterstick I have ever had in my hands and the best I've ever seen (damn this thing is a beauty). After spending some hours with CCP and Foxy I decided to never give the Cougar away. I have the ability to program and configure a product fully to my wishes. Thousands of functions with them, I can play around ... nice. Also mechanically I have a bit of freedom (remove/replace the throttle detents etc. etc.). So I can choose to have a customized, configured and programmed Cougar which just applies to me and nobody else. So I can make a Cougar MY Cougar. Very cool. A big thanks to the programmers of Foxy and everyone else, you have done a very good job." Tiger 295.) "Put your concerns to rest. I had many of the same worries from some of the bad press the Cougar has received. But once you get that big, heavy, metal stick and throttle in your hands you'll know the money was worth it and then some. Not to mention the switch gear and hats on the Cougar are second to none. It will just feel right. Mark my words, just take it out of the box, set it up in front of you on the dining room table and smile. Then before you install it read the advice on this site then read it again to make sure you do it right. Just take your time and savor the moment." Sinwerm 294.) "I've been reading up on all these mods offered, and the way everyone around here talks about the benefits of the mods you would think the stock Cougar is nothing more than a MS sidewinder. I'm sure that's not the case, but someone please put this in perspective for me. Is it: Regular plastic crappy stick: 3/10 Cougar: 8/10 Modded Cougar: 10/10 Or is it more like: Regular plastic crappy stick: 3/10 Cougar: 10/10 Modded Cougar: 15/10 Thanks for the input!" Elusive 293.) "I am flying my original Cougar, that I got shortly after they were released. It has been going strong for almost 4 years now. The power of the software and programmability is second to none. You can go as simple as just using it as a Direct X device, to as complicated as writing your own program files for it from scratch for your individual sims. Or, download some of the more popular files users have already created, and tweak them from there. The single largest complaint you will see on the Cougar is the stiffness of the springs. I got used to it, and it was really no big deal to me. However, I modded mine with Ian's Uber2 NXT gimbal mod combined with Cubby's Hall Sensors earlier this year, and this stick is now the definition of smoothness. I don't see how it could get any better than this. Again though, I used it stock for well over 3 years, nothing wore out, pots did not go bad, it has served me well, and undoubtedly will continue to do so for a long time. I like the Cougar so much, that when Amazon ran a special on them a year or so ago, I purchased another. It still sits, new in the box, in my closet. I figure someday TM will no longer produce them, as sales slow and the market becomes saturated, and I wanted to have an extra just in case, and should I ever need a backup. If you're a serious flight simmer, that will be flight simming for some time to come, and want what many consider the ultimate stick, then this is a good one for you. Read up on the forums here at Cougar World, download the manual and read up on it, and decide for yourself. You won't find another stick like this one, and they'll probably never make another one like this one, as far as new development. As far as I am concerned, the money spent on this Cougar Hotas, along with the money spent on the mods, was very well spent money. The gimbal mod and hall sensors were not needed to make this stick good, I got them to make a great stick darn near perfect!" Don Burnette 292.) "Personal Testimony: Well, I've been into flightsimming since 1985. I've owned every one of Thrustmaster's flight controllers since the: FCS/WCS, FLCS/TQS, FLCS-Pro/TQS, FLCS-Pro/TQS w/Dig Upgrade Chips, and now the Cougar FLCS and TQS controller set. All of these still exist are in working order in my "collection bin", except that Im using the Cougars presently. I have not needed to fix the Cougars and I've had them for about 2+ years now. With proper care (dust covers and keeping the dust off them), not beating on the stick & throttle or hamfisting the little switches when using, proper electrical care when plugging them (they do contain electro-static sensitive EEPROM chip); they will last a long long time. These are not plastic like all the previous TM controllers, but rather are metal. Being in a Falcon4 flight sim squadron, I put in about 5-10 hours a week using the Cougars. So my Cougars have been used for at least 1000 hours and don't have a scratch or exhibit any spiking or other symptoms. Reliability: While it is true that many have bad pots and switches either from the day they were received or after 100's and 1000's of hours of use, the vast majority do not experience this kind of mechanical failure. TM will send you the parts for free if you write/email/call them. Yes, it did take about 4 months for me to get backup parts (I don't need them yet). And yes, there are HALL Effect (electro-magnetic parts) to replace the moving pots (potentiometers) which make the controllers even more long lasting. This would be for those with the money and is very worth the investment if you're logging 100's of hours in your favorite flight sim. Complexity: Cougars are not for the technically challenged or timid flight simmer. You will have to know how to program in the TM button command file language (or just slightly modify the existing ones to meet your needs), know how to hook up your flight controllers to work with the Cougars, understand Windows controller utility, use the TM Command and Control setup software, use the FOXY stick file editor and Cougar maintenance software (which is super), understand flight controls as they relate to the aircraft you are simulating and how that maps to the stick buttons and axes, understand the complex flight sim (for hard core simmers that would be: Falcon4, LockOn, MS-FS, IL2 and others. Support: Thrustmaster controllers, and Cougars in particular have a super user community of technologically adept users that are there to help world wide due to the web forums. With almost 100 Falcon4 and LockOn online flight squadrons, which you can find with any internet search engine, there are lots of opportunities to get help and join an online flight squadron. The software and bios (flash micro code) is a free download, as are many user controller files. The negative side is that this is a French and Canadian business (Guillemot) that took over the American owned Thrustmaster company, so there are delays in getting parts and finding new units. One often has to find them on Amazon or Ebay (and I don't advise buying used ones as you may be buying a damaged set.) Value: Or bang-for-the-buck? One movie date with condiments will cost you near $50 for about 2 hours of fun, or $25/hr. You will get 100's-1000's of hours with TM Cougars. That's $300/100 or about $3/hour if you only fly 100 hours total (which is not very hard core flight simmer). That's just the quantitative value. For the qualitative value you have the realism, full functionality and "feel". Realism wise, I own a real FLCS and TQS from an F16-A fighter jet. When you put the Cougars next to the real set, they are almost identical in form and function. In fact, the functionality of the Cougars are user definable due to their programmability - whereas the real ones have set functions. Just put the Cougars in your hands, and you will feel the solid construction and will have as close as you can come to the real things in the palm of your hands. Realism: See for yourself, compare these real HOTAS from an F16-A with the picture of the Cougars which emulate those found in an F16-C. In closing, the TM Cougars have a steep learning curve and require care, patience, perseverance, technical skills and some serious bucks. They are clearly for the high end or "hard core" flight simmer. The CH Products Pedal Pro (gameport or USB) work well with the Cougars. If you want force feedback, I recommend that you instead get a MS Sidewinder Pro2 USB which is a stick, throttle and rudder with FFB all in one with limited user function programmability. Other sticks and throttles I've tried like: Saitek and CH Prod have their place, but must bow to the king of controllers: the TM Cougar." T. "AV8R" Spann 291.) "Some people will lead you to believe you must spend a lot more money for upgrades to even get the joystick to work. Boloney - it works great out of the box. Yes the springs are stiff but that is good. If you find them too stiff you can remove the rubber sleeve around the joystick's shaft. The joystick does have minor play in the handle but so does CH products. The light tension on the CH joystick does not let you notice the play unless you look for it but it's there too. There is not a more pleasing looking or feeling HOTAS made. It is modelled after a real world Jet - the F-16 Falcon. If you take the time to learn to program it, you will have tons of fun for many years. If you were to buy the stick just as a replica you would be pleased. That's how great they look and feel. To sum it up the Cougar is a great HOTAS, one that I'm proud to own." Reviewer from USA, as featured on Amazon.com 290.) "James, you did a heck of a job with this software and besides being a great interface for the Cougar, it has some other useful benefits. Thanks again!" Vegas 289.) "It's indeed one of a kind, eh? I got mine a couple of days ago and I'm still amazed at just how beautiful this HOTAS is. Man ... I can't stop looking at my Cougar. I wouldn't trade it for anything. If the Cougar I have now was the last one on earth and someone offered me a BMW for it, I'd tell them to stay away from my Kitty - politely, of course :)" Allister "zedboy" Castro 288.) "I walked around the house for DAYS with the stick in my hand, just getting used to the weights and feel. It's an impressive piece of work." Louis R. "Stonedrake" Rodriguez 287.) "OMG! It is almost like it is forged from solid metal. Cold, heavy, rock solid! Talk about a piece of artwork, this thing is BEAUTIFUL. I'm almost afraid to touch it. I had my wife pick up the box and she asked if I ordered a box of bricks. LOL! I don't want to plug it in ... I just want to walk around the house with it. I took it out of the box and showed it to my wife and all she said is, "WOW, that is for a computer game? It looks real ... what do they do with the planes when they take the sticks from them?!" The look and feel alone have left me awe struck ... now I know why all of you guys/gals cherish your Cougars so much. I feel like my computer should be built around my Cougar ... AMAZING." Shane "Arklight" S. 286.) "I've had mine for 2 weeks now, and I'll tell you it still blows my mind how much better this is than my old Saitek rig. The programming software alone is light years beyond Saitek's. This stick is really incredible!" Rick "Talon" Keller 285.) "WOW - It arrived today!! As an experienced FS user, during my first flight ... I crashed. This hardware makes you THINK about your flying, just the way it should be!!! I just want to thank everyone who has contributed to this product or website - my love of flight sims has at last been renewed!!! THANKYOU!!!!" Reality1 284.) "IMHO, the Cougar is the best HOTAS we will ever have for a long time to come, if not ever. Yes it has problems, along with every other piece of computer hardware. With so many varied combinations available, there are bound to be glitches. One thing I can attest to, and it has been mentioned on these forums, is that Intel chipsets seem to be the most trouble-free. I've put a considerable amount of $ into this setup (with the ES mod and Cub's throttle mod), but I believe it is now the best available at any price and maybe the best ever. The way I look at it, Thrustmaster gave us the core product, which is an incredibly realistic HOTAS. I think the flightsim community was lucky to get it. What has happened is that some incredibly talented individuals from this community have made it what we all wanted it to be." SplashU 283.) "I had printed all the user comments and read all the comments while waiting for my Cougar`s arrival. It is about 5 months since I got it and I could not rave here before since I was busy playing with it. It works perfectly with Falcon 4.0, Flanker 2.51 and IL-2 . High res pots, hard spring tension, adjustable response curve settings and a separate throttle makes aiming, landing on a carrier or refuelling much more easier and precise than conventional, so-called quality joysticks of big brands. The unit itself is a piece of art and a must buy for all hardcore sim players. There is no substitute for this in the market. It is a necessity like a fast computer for sim playing. (In fact I still use my Voodoo 3 2000 since I spent all my upgrade money on Cougar, and I would not change my Cougar for a MS Sidewinder + the best 3d card on the market). Everybody who reads the user comments would be sure how magnificient a product this is, so I need not rave about the product itself. I will tell something about the flawless support from TM-Guillemot: My throttle pot was broken because of that flash upgrade problem. I wrote about this to TM support and requested for a replacement pot. They quickly (much quicker than I had expected) sent two pots although I requested only one, and I did not pay anything for the pots or the postage. I installed one of the pots, throttle works flawlessly now. I think center play is an important issue: my Cougar had considerable play, but I mended it using the methods written in this site and center play is quite low now. However when I have time, I will have the gimbals reworked in a professional place for absolute zero play. I know in case I mess the gimbals up, TM will send a replacement! And this web site is unbelievable. With so much info from Frugal's World and spare parts availability from TM, you will have no problems in the future and you'll be able to enjoy your Cougar for ever." Saygin "ser" Eroglu 282.) "Just got my new HOTAS Cougar today and together with my CH Pro Rudder Pedals I've never felt a more realistic combination! When my CH F-16 Fighterstick and Pro Throttle started to give out I prepaid for the HOTAS and because they were out of stock everywhere I had to wait 2 months for delivery!! Nothing has been more worth the wait! The stick and throttle are so heavy and feel so real you wonder if someone just swiped them out of an unattended F-16 on a Tarmac somewhere! If you're not used to Thrustmaster Programming you've got some reading/deciphering to do but it's nothing once you get the feel for it and there are websites that offer downloadable templates too. Truly the best in its field!" Chris "SixKicker" Wellman 281.) "I've been using Thrustmaster products since 1994 and have always been impressed with their quality and functionality. The Cougar HOTAS system is light-years ahead of any of their previous products, as well as (IMO) any competing joystick/throttle combos out there today. The Cougar's physical presence alone makes it a winner; add in its smooth-as-silk control response and amazingly powerful programming software and you've got THE controller set-up to own, period. If you like plastic, force-feedback "twisty" sticks, the Cougar is not for you. If you're serious about flight sims, get a Cougar now!" Reviewer from Carrollton, TX, USA, as featured on Amazon.com 280.) "Well ... all I can say is this. I've had my Cougar for only about a month, but I'd have to say I couldn't live without it, already. It's a little tough to tweak at first, but it comes with the most popular games already programmed into it. It does take some getting used to, and some reading to program efficently, but then again, how much reading and research do you think REAL F-16 pilots go through? Furthermore, if you have any trouble with programming or anything else, it's not hard to find help. No other controller package out there has the support of the Cougar. All in all, now that I have a Cougar, I don't even LOOK at other controllers, much less consider buying/using them. There simply IS NO SUBSTITUTE short of buying a real F-16, or becoming an Air Force pilot. I use the Cougar primarily in Falcon 4.0, (the greatest modern combat sim ever created, in my opinion), but also use it in Microsoft Flight Sim 2000 & 2002, and Microsoft Combat Sim 1,2 & 3. The Cougar is great for ALL of them. Simply put, if you like Flight Sims, esp. combat sims, BUY IT! You won't regret it!" Mustang231 279.) "I have to add a quick "Amen!". My Cougar has really added a new level of immersion to my simming: there's no distraction from the controllers. My FLCS/F-22 Pro/TQS, while very good, always had something about them that would remind me they were there: the throttle lifting up off the desk, wrestling with the damned "eraser head" cursor control, joystick-induced drift ... you know the drill. My Cougar has none of those quirks. It lets me fly without inserting itself into the illusion and breaking the suspension of disbelief. Thanks to everyone here for, well, for being here! I doubt I would have made the effort to get a Cougar if it hadn't been for the wealth of knowledge and support provided by y'all. Thank you." El_Roto 278.) "New Cougar is "Perfect". What I mean to say is, it all works fine. Software installed fine after I read the instructions, speedbrake worked fine too. I did open her up to check the speed brake anyway. I also took advantage of having the throttle opened up to adjust the detents more to my liking. Looking inside one of these things tells you right away why they are worth the money! My eight year old FLCS\TQS\RCS is still going strong with stock parts and little maintenance (thanks in great part to James Hallows and Bob Church). I expect this Cougar to last much longer than that! Happy Customer." Matt Jones 277.) "I have to admit at first I was very sceptical coming from a highly customized ChProducts rig. After getting through the programming systems, and learning the ins and outs of what not to do when flashing and setting up, I just want to say - nice job TM, finally something high end for gamers! The many programmable features is like being a kid in a candy store. The stick feels great, works great." shotgun476 276.) "I have had my unit since it was released. I was continuously checking on the development similar to a kid waking up several times a night on Christmas eve to see if Santa has been. Well the day finally arrived when I got the unit and away the three of us went. Initially I did have some problems which I was not able to trace and fix myself so I just spent a bit more money getting a computer tech to get it up and running. This was not a fault of the Cougar unit. I now have it running sweet as a bun. I am also getting my head around the Foxy software alot more now and it is a great feeling getting the controls to do what you want. Great effort by everyone involved. Now all we need are the pedal controls to match. Just one last thing - I am also one of what seems to be the few that like the clicking as the throttle goes through the indents and have them as loud as I can. I am considering putting a mike beside the throttle so I can have the clicking turned up more through my speakers. The unit cost me around $350 US dollars but since I live way down here in New Zealand I expected that, but to any considering buying a Cougar it is well worth it or you could wait for me to die and dig mine out from my coffin." Graeme "Necroscope" Thomas 275.) "Well to start out this is quite possibly the best feeling joystick setup I have ever owned. Sure it has cost big money but it's worth it just for the programming and ease of use. I have had it for about a year now and I have loved and hated it all in a 24 hour period. However the love aspect overrules the hate 99% of the time. There are times when it needs some harsh words but those are few and far between and mainly related to the software and my Via chipset motherboard. So be careful which Via chipset you use. My suggestion is stay away from the KT266. I love the feel of the stick and I am one of the few who like to hear the clicks within the throttle from the detents. You can move or remove the detents as needed and it makes for a highly customizable stick before you even attempt to mod it. The software (Foxy) is utterly amazing. There is nothing that I haven't been able to do with it even having used the old versions of Foxy and Thrustmapper way back when. So in closing if you have the money, buy this stick and use it." nicholsw5 274.) "I just wanted to comment on how extremely happy I am with my unit. The Cougar is, by far, the best HOTAS I have ever owned. I have had exactly zero problems in the couple of months that I have had it. The programming language is extremely robust and I’m still a babe in the woods compared to some who have been using it a while. Hopefully, TM will continue to produce this fine product. It is the ultimate toy." Derek "Wemic" Jackson 273.) "Good god is the Cougar nice or what. Just got mine home last week and have been playing with it when I can. I too thought 260+/- was a lot to pay for this. But I also spent the same amount on the F-22/TQS some 5-6 years ago. But the Cougar is the best made controller out there. The only thing is that now I have to learn an entire different set of stick files. Used the same one for my F-22 for about 3 years, so it's rather time consuming, not to mention many "P" during flight. But oh is it worth it. My congrats to all involved in making this product." Coffee 272.) "BTW, Foxy blows me away as a programming tool." Chris "Vex" K 271.) "Just got my Cougar and it's all installed, and up-to-date. All I can say is WOW!!!!! I was expecting an awesome HOTAS, but this is beyond anything I could have imagined. And the programming software, whoa!! I've just barely read the first few pages, and it seems the possibilities are astounding, only limited by your imagination." James "GateKeeper" Pallace 270.) "I've been a long time F22 owner and supporter. I took the plunge into the Cougar world after having felt the cold metal. I can assure you that the stick is infinitely better than the F22. It's pretty damn safe to assume your stick will work flawlessly out of the box. It is a solidly working system. There are no stuck keyboard errors like the F22, the pots are solid out of the box, and the software has evolved so much that it puts this stick above anything else you can buy. If you experience a problem I think most people here will be very suprised. Whatever problems you read about in this forum, things like mods and so forth ... they're all coming from the point of view of perfectionists who like to tinker. This is the best working controller out of the box that I have ever bought ... When you pay $300 I think TM understands that IT MUST WORK. And it does. I couldn't give you a reason not to buy it." Jackie_Chan_Fan 269.) "Got my new Cougar, and contrary to some of the static out there installation was a breeze, no problems with play and it works extremely well with FS 2002 heliocopters, thank God. Works just right, especially with sensitivities and realism cranked all the way up. I have to add that this is a quality product." hassata 268.) "Your site is simply amazing ... what a fabulous community you guys have here ... keep up the GREAT job!!" Paulo Alex "OiGi" Remigio 267.) "I would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your work with this excellent piece of equipment. It ROCKS and the ride is mighty good! Keep up the good work with Foxy!" Fredrik "Pilgrim" Moen 266.) "The Cougar gives you a clear, defined movement, albeit it might have some center play. That's another thing which is so good about the Cougar ... you can open it up, and fix it or have it fixed, if there ever is an error. Aside from the real circuit board, every pot and switch is replaceable, and if you dont know how, simply have a shop do it for you. Ditto the mechanics ... can all be modded and fixed if it ever gets sloppy. Another buying point for me is the unmatched precision. The heavier stick feeling made me keep my energy better in IL-2, and I can aim a lot better now. It really improved my flying, not to mention immersion. Lastly ... part of it is certainly the "Coolness Factor". I decided to built a Top-End Gaming Rig this July, no compromises. I simply wanted the best controller I could get to go along with that raw power. Oh, and don't worry ... Thrustmaster is the maker of the Cougar, and while they might stop production, they are far from going out of business. Aftermarket support by Thrustmaster for their old TQS and F-16 Sticks is unmatched in quality. So that's definitely one worry off your list." RSColonel_131st 265.) "Cougar all the way! Nothing beats that cold feeling of metal ... all those buttons ... programable axes ... movable detents ... a programming language in its own right for a mini computer inside the stick ... upgradeable firmware, software, and drivers that work ... increased muscle volume in your arms ... :) The BEST god damn £250 I ever spent on anything for my computer!" Gareth "Valleyboy" O'Connell 264.) "I would just like to thank everyone on these boards for the good advice and after reading these forums and Cougar World for the past 3 weeks waiting in anticipation, I followed all the advice to the letter and I must say I don't know what in the hell I have been doing as to leave the purchase so late. My God this is one spunky bit o' kit :)" Russ "Deathace" Mein 263.) "Just received my Cougar. Thanks to this great web site and all of the goodies available here, my HOTAS is working GREAT!! I can't believe the difference it makes in every way. Thanks again to all involved in this web site!" Rick Weinstein 262.) "After 4 months using my Cougar, I am very satisfied. Stable, solid as a rock ... well, what more can I demand ... ;)" Alejandro "Alejo" Melo 261.) "As someone well acquainted with software over the years, I have very much admired all the work which went into making the Cougar software visually a feast for the eye and technically a treat to use. The features for beginners in particular I found awesome." Brian Cowell 260.) "I have what I consider the most precise movements I have experienced in a sim using this stick. With F4 the stick is wonderful! If you have the money, go ahead and try it. I have nothing but praise for the Cougar." Overkill 259.) "You have to spend a lot of bucks for a Cougar, but its programmability, its heavy metal case, its "I'm-sitting-in-a-real-viper" feeling are waaaaayyyyy better than other sticks." Markus "Reaper" Linecker 258.) "I just got my HOTAS from UPS today and was overjoyed with anticipation! Opening the box and flipping thru the reference book I was horrified as I saw a bunch of code I didn't know! Fearing the worst, I installed the software and prepared to get mentally hammered by code and confusing help files. I'd like to say Thank You, for after reading the first few pages of the help wizard, I realized that this was going to be easy! If only ALL help/man files were written like you write yours." Scott Houppermans 257.) "If anything in life is constant, it is the 1st class support, help and advice by the Cougar team and all the other chaps whom seem to live in here :) THANK YOU ALL!" Marc "Slapphead" Sinclair 256.) "I got my set 2 weeks ago and am still juicy!!! I was able to use it out of the box and was modifying a base template on the third day to set it up the way I like!!! NOTHING like it! My first battles without hands on keyboard was SWEET!!! It's THE BEST!!! This community provided the research foundation upon which I based my decision to purchase. Thanks ALL!!!" ghengisx 255.) "It is worth the price, it is fully metal including the buttons, thus the Foxy software enables you to adjust the joystick to your needs for any Flight sim game (at least the once I have tested it in). I am currently writing an essay on a few military jets - this is why I got this controller, thus I am a big sim gamer. If you are a real fanatic of sims I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS CONTROLLER, believe me you will not be disappointed. Oh one last thing, don't be surprised when you check on UPS tracking status and find out that the package weighs 20.00 lbs!!" sir-cobra 254.) "I have owned almost every controller TM ever developed from the FCS/WCS.......FLCS/TQS, and I have to say I am very impressed with this Cougar. I know that it has a few minor problems, but my hat is off to the development team, and all the dedicated individuals who worked long hours writing code to make this project become a reality. I just wanted to thank you guys for all the hard work, all the great info that you post, and most of all to thank you for nudging me into taking that hammer to the "piggy-bank", and finally ordering this thing, instead of just thinking about it !! So far, everything is working great !! Glad to be a part of the Cougar Family now, and hopefully I will be able to contribute some info to help others, the way you have helped me." Gordon "Alfster" Shumway 253.) "I received one a couple of weeks ago and it works better than other HOTAS TQS that I have owned. Don't listen to the whiners or ones with troubles with the units as most are issues not related to the unit itself but the operating system or install procedure. There is a lot of help on Frugals if you get stuck. If you are a serious flight simmer you will want this." Grey Wolf 252.) "I bought two. One to use and one to keep pristine in its box until it becomes a collector's item!" Dry 251.) "Cougar is not perfect, but is nevertheless miles ahead of its nearest competitor in both hardware and programming quality." Habu 250.) "I've owned a TM F22, and now I've recently just bought a Cougar HOTAS. I immediately noticed how amazing it feels. It's solid, it's cold, it's metal, it's sturdy and it will last. The Cougar is much more functional in that it's newer, more advanced feature wise, and functions much more reliably than the F22 did. I think what it comes down to is this. The Cougar is the ONLY one of its kind. It's metal, it's cold, it's accurately modelled after F16 controls and it's unique in that it's the toy we all dream of. NOTHING is like the Cougar." Jackie_Chan_Fan 249.) "Love it, love it, love it. This is a wonderful piece of equipment." Randy "Silvertip" Sparks 248.) "I am very satisfied with this product. I held off for fear of what I may end up with and then decided to take the plunge after I realized how crappy everything else on the market was. The great thing about this product is that it is very simple to install and operate no matter what experience level you are or what your ambitions are. You can use this product as a simple plug and play joystick using direct X buttons alone or you can go all out and write the most complicated programs you can imagine and post your glorious accomplishments on the internet for others to see and enjoy. I took it along to a LAN party and even though no one else flew sims they all wanted to touch and lift the HOTAS. I found the documentation to be very well written, clear and enjoyable to read. I downloaded and studied other's programs for Falcon4SP3 and learned the basics of the programming so I could modify and set up my own HOTAS setup just the way I like it. I am not a programmer but within two days out of the box I was flying F4SP with my own preferred settings and very few glitches. I'm certain I will be learning and tweaking this product for many years to come! I feel I got my money's worth and would recommend this product to anyone who enjoys flight sims ... especially combat jet flight sims ... and plans to for years to come. The community support is first rate also, thanks to everyone here." Woody 247.) "All of the reviews I've read so far are on the mark - at least the positive ones. There's not much I can add over what others have already - except - now THIS is what I expected the F-22/TQS combo to be like when I ordered those way back when. I can recall that while I loved (and still do love) those sticks, I was a little let down by the three cables that had to be plugged into the PC, the light weight of the TQS, the "eraser nub", the many adapters that were needed, and questionable pots. The Cougar seems to have solved all of these. The only good part about that whole process was the introduction and brief interaction with James Hallows - just a top-notch individual. I consistently enjoy reading his wit every time I have to use the great "Fox" line of software." Hedgehog 246.) "The Thrustmaster HOTAS is by far the best flight controller system on the market today. All metal construction makes it unique in a field that is filled with plastic. The joystick and throttle each weigh in at 8 pounds and will not move off your desk no matter how hairy the situation gets. They are as real as you can get without having a plane strapped to the bottom of them. If you are a serious flight sim fanatic, then this is the system for you. Be warned though that while almost every flight sim that is out there right now is supported by the accompanying FOXY software, you may have to still do some reading and the manual is 183 pages long. :) The manual is necessary though, with the ability to program every button and switch to perform almost any combination of actions that you want them to, you need a powerful program to do that and FOXY is the answer. It has a very easy-to-use interface, a helpful help file (which many programs conveniently forget) and will even let you make a graphic of your joystick with all the functions you've assigned to the switches so you can refer to it (hopefully while you're still on the ground). Again, if you live for flight sims, then this is for you. If you are only going to use it every once in a while to frag your buddy, then I would consider a less expensive stick - unless of course you just like having the best of the best . :)" haragei 245.) "If you are shopping around for a joystick to play any flight sim with, then you might want to keep on looking. However, if you want to engage in all-out aircombat or want to practice flying and want or need the best flight controller on the market, then you have found it! There is NO second best compared to this kitten. The Cougar is in a totally different world. The support is beyond anything you have ever seen!" R. W. "Topkelley" Kelley 244.) "YES!!!!! Thrustmaster's best controller combo, my codename for it: The Deadly Duo, is finally back and it's SAHWEEEEEET!!! They've toughened it up and made it more deadly than ever! The guys at Thrustmaster/Guillemot have really outdone themselves with this one. The design improvements and tough construction earn my "Built to Last!" seal of approval. Its vastly improved programmability make the HOTAS Cougar the most versatile game controller combo ever produced. It even has a DB15 connector for rudder peddals! This setup is definitely worth the money! I've waited a very long time for this one and it's finally here!!!!! To Thrustmaster/Guillemot: Great job, guys!!!!! YOU DA BEST!!!!!!!!! Watch your six, people! And Happy Flying! ;-)" Bill "Spektyr" Laskorski 243.) "Happy ... well ... yeah! Did it work out of the box? Yes ... as advertised. Took all of 10 minutes to plug in and install ... B-sure to read the pre-install notes before plugging Cougar into your computer. The hook up is sequence-dependent and can be confusing if not followed. With that 3 second task out of the way you are off into the wild blue yonder." Ra224 242.) "Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS is in a class by itself. This is the BEST joystick/throttle combination in the market today -- period. Ever been inside the cockpit of an F-16? These controllers are modelled almost identically to their real world counterparts on F-16 fighter jets, and will make you feel like you are inside an F-16. In fact, these controllers are so real you will ask yourself -- Where is the rest of the cockpit? -- when you take them out of the box. The joystick, throttle, and housing are constructed in metal and do not feel like any other joystick in the market today. The software package includes set-ups for the most popular flight sims. You can program the sticks to work with any flight sim. One of the included software programs (FOXY) has a wizard which will teach you basics of programming. If you are a beginner, programming will take patience. However, once you master the programming package, you can program each button to perform several tasks. The bottom line is: if you can afford these controllers (Amazon's price is among the best), and you enjoy combat flight sims -- buy the Cougar." rcdem 241.) "I received my Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar recently. Like a child waiting with anticipation for a Xmas or birthday gift I tracked it everyday maybe two or three times until it arrived! Ah h h yes Christmas in July! This is just about the best gift I have received, mostly because it is what I really wanted. I had seen the first advertisment for it about a year ago I believe and since then I know that I have purchased a least 4 types of controllers. I'm not a great pilot or even a great gamer but when I got my HOTAS joystick my mind saw all kinds of new adventures on the horizon. I have purchased several joysticks and pads for my computers and either the buttons have broken or they just lost what little minds they had or did not perform. As a retired Navy Petty Officer I have had my fun filled share of dealing with detailed operating and calibration equipment and have a feel for what is working right and what is not. In less then 10 minutes I had installed the software and "My Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar Joystick". This I could not believe because I have had some problem with each of the controllers that I had purchased before & it was not operator error! What I find in this Thrustmaster is quality, endurance, style and growth as it will have other components in the future from what I understand. With each upgrade of my computer system I am sure that my HOTAS will perform well beyond the everyday standards of other joysticks and grow as my system grows with my additions to it. For once I feel as though I have an investment in quality and not a waste money on just a mere toy that will fall apart. I could talk about it all day but you won't understand until you too become a proud member of the Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar family. Thanks Thrustmaster!" Samuel D. Raines III 240.) "The last flight controller you'll ever need. They are NOT kidding ... this IS the ultimate stick. There are some tweakings and make sure you get the software upgrades. This stick is not for the action gamer tho: it's a SERIOUS tool for SERIOUS flight-simers." Dennis E. Weldy 239.) "Foxy: a Windows program that is powerful, works as advertised, and has not crashed yet..(4 weeks use), and has useful help files and tutorials. A first, and a breath of fresh air ..." Michael "Fhyndoh" Finegan 238.) "I've had my Cougar for a week now. Like some others in this forum, I felt a bit extravagant, even guilty, justifying it to myself with the thought that I've been patching up my FCS Mark 1 for years. But getting into Foxy so quickly and then finding that there's one of the best communities I've ever come across behind it - It's better than group therapy! And then there's the stick itself!! - Goodbye guilt." Fraser "Cadastra" Wood 237.) "I've got a Cougar. You can have mine when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. It is THE stick. Period. Spring tension is stiff, but not tough. It also has the distinction of being the first plug and play device that actually lived up to that promise (install the drivers, plug it in, go) and hasn't missed a beat since I've received it. It took me a couple of days to learn how to program it, but that isn't difficult, either. If you're worried about getting one, don't. You'll never regret it :)" Gunner 236.) "I've had my Cougar for a couple of months, and the only time I've looked back at the X36 is when I need a chuckle." Greg "EvenStrain" Cook 235.) "Bought it 2 days ago and am still gobsmacked by all the possibilities." Julian "the Gremlin" Sallows 234.) "Mine arrived 2 days ago, and I haven't stopped dribbling yet ... it is DEFINITLY WORTH IT!!!! I can finally work the radar modes, and azimuth etc. without having to leap around the keyboard!!!" Michael "Fhyndoh" Finegan 233.) "Cougar First Impressions - First of all, there´s the feel. Nothing comes close. Unplugging the MS Precision 2, I touched it for the last time, and it felt like a cheap toy, in comparison. I followed the manual, installed a couple of device drivers Windows XP asked for, and in no time I was up and running. I jumped right in Foxy, modified Nutty´s Warbirds III file to make it work for me, and I was flying. For the first time in a while, I felt happy flying Warbirds. It felt right. No more twisty rudder. No more reaching for the keyboard on key moments of combat. But it's more than that ... it felt right. Well, a few days have passed, I explored the forums here to see what people were saying, and the main issues seemed to be: -Center play or slop -Spring stiffness -T9 button problem Well, I never saw any T9 button problem. T9 works smoothly like all the other ones. Maybe the people with this problem got unlucky. The springs are indeed stiff, especially if you try to move the stick around randomly. But in Warbirds, I felt none of that. I was able to fly beautifully. Maybe it has to do with the way you fly, maybe in finding a nice joystick axis curve, maybe it depends on the sim u fly. Truthfully, with the Cougar, I´ve only flown in Warbirds so far, and I´m racking up kills and performing manoeuvers just the way I like it. Center slop. Now, I have a "big" center slop. Some people say it makes flying a hassle. I only noticed this slop AFTER reading all the posts about it, and after flying in Warbirds for a while. I only noticed it when moving the stick to see if I have any slop. To me, this isn't noticeable in flight, and is not a factor. The Cougar gives me what no other controller has, which is allowing me to fly the way I want to, with precision, and total control of the plane´s behaviour. I read the whole manual (great read), and I´m in awe about what the Cougar can do. So I´m very happy with my Cougar. It comes down to this: It has precision. It has all the axes you´ll ever need (but get rudder pedals). It has all the buttons and hats you will ever want, which are able to do anything you can imagine, plus a few things you can't. Multifunction buttons, macro building, logical programming ... Bottomline, for the flight sim nut, nothing comes close. Thank you Thrustmaster!!" Alberto "Roland" Jamous 232.) "I have bought myself a Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar & must say that it's one of the best items I have for my p.c." Derek "chiller" Fernandez 231.) "Go ahead and buy one, you won't regret it. I started with the F-16 and it lasted me until just a few months ago when I retired it for the Cougar. I haven't noticed any play in the joystick, it sits solid on the desk no matter how badly I'm thrashing it around and I haven't had any problems in programming or with spiking. If there's any 'improvement' done, I would sure like to know what it would be because I couldn't be happier with this stick." Instinct 230.) "Dr. Hallows, your program is awesome, sir. My hat's off to you. Foxy is one of the main reasons I bought a Cougar." Sung Han 229.) "I am so amazed at the Foxy software which I have only just begun to study. I have written my first Macro & Joystick files for Mech Warrior 4. It was an absolute treat doing so. I still have many, many hours of playing with all the software to obtain the full benefits of this product, however if it did nothing else than what I have obtained from it up till now, I would still be very happy. (Which means I am going to get even happier):)" Geoff "DayWalker" Pipprell 228.) "The support here is just beyond fantastic! I don't know beans about 'puter programmin' (but I'm catching on fast). At first, I was frustrated, but kept with it and my skills/understanding are expanding quite rapidly. This type of sharing is very unusual in my experience in the business world. Cougar World is a rare jewel!" Jerry "BPO6_GoldenWing" Spruiel 227.) "Anything I need to know about the Cougar, I learn here. The interaction here between the users and the experts is just amazing. I'm at a loss of words to explain what I see here. The folks that make things like this happen do it because they love what WE do. Really, Cougar World, I've never seen anything work better. Hats off!!" Slammin 226.) "What an amazing piece of equipment. I'm still trying to figure out many of its capabilities. The good news is, however, I ain't alone, not with all the support online here and at Cougar World." Wayne "AirRock" Parker 225.) "Doesn't it make you feel good to know that you bought a product that not only is superior, but comes with support and a community like this?" Jeremy "Spaghetti" Malheim 224.) "Just got mine yesterday and I'm extremely impressed with this product. In fact it's my first Thrustmaster product and I'm completely blown away by this HOTAS. It's just about as awe inspiring as my first Voodoo card many years ago :)" Justin "Ginzo" R. 223.) "Congrats to Thrustmaster, I thought I was being a bit extravagant buying this, but very very happy with it after two days! (no going back to my MS FF!!!!!!!!)." the_vicar 222.) "I'd buy another of these babies in a heartbeat. It's a great stick, and the most enjoyable piece of hardware I've owned." Chuck "WWReaper" Nichols 221.) "I just received my Cougar and I had it up and running in just 15 minutes (connection + installation of latest firmware and Foxy 2.1) - it's really plug and play !!!!!!!!! The Cougar is phenomenal as is the Cougar software and support (I've read on Cougar World *my first day with the Cougar*) I've bought first the TM FCS1 and the TM WCS2, followed by the TM TQS and TM FCLS, that was followed by a piece of junk (X45) and now the Cougar; if you're talking € or $ it's money well spent. Now I've come full circle and the only mistake I made with the purchase of HOTAS is that I was moron enough to buy an X45 (faulty hardware combined with two bit software = your worst freaking nightmare) but vengeance is near and my X45 has an appointment with a crowbar :) The Cougar rulesssss :)" weerwolf 220.) "A very distinctive product that certainly improves my Aces High enjoyment. I hope to learn more about how to tweak it in the future ... Thanks to all here for the excellent discussion of this product." Pongo 219.) "I have owned all TM HOTAS controllers with the exception of the very first one and HOTAS Cougar far exceeds all of the previous versions, in all aspects, comparing it to the F-22 Pro and F-16 TQS, it's like a small step in apparent design, a huge leap in actual design. The build quality of the Cougar is nothing short of excellence and the simple internal design makes it fairly easy to tweak it to your personal preference should you wish to do so. The software is absolutely superb. James Hallows has been developing Foxy (the GUI used to program the HOTAS Cougar with ... and more) for many years now and Foxy is really a marvel of an application. The Cougar Control Panel and Compiler (the software used to communicate with the Cougar) are obviously a lot never in development and David Block has really programmed something very unique and special here. What's even better is that the software is continously being developed and supported. I can say this much though, it's not perfect, but it's the best HOTAS on the market and although it comes at a price, can you really afford to be without one?" Nils "Wolverine" Holmgren 218.) "It's finally come!!!!! And it's the dogs bollocks, I've found no play in the stick but the air brake switch is really stiff. I was a bit worried when I got the stick out of the box coz the pickle button was loose on the inside of the package but I've put it in place and it works great! Thank you TM for the best stick I've ever owned!" Craig "System" Jones 217.) "I know there are posts that project that a person reading the "negative" posts on this board may make them shy away from purchasing. I would argue something of the opposite. If someone is interested in a detailed flight sim arrangement and has the funding (hey, these aren't "cheap" after all), he/she is likely to delve deeply into all facets on a board such as this. In doing so, one finds a concerned community, willing to help. I have had several such experiences in my short time of posting here. Yes, BECAUSE the controllers are so detailed, there is a learning curve, but TM (and James) have done their best to get even a newbie up and running. There are some glitches along the way (hey, Microsoft wrote the Windows OS and THEY routinely screw over their own hardware from one version to the next!). With the help of the fine people on this forum, most, if not all problems will be solved. Thanks for the soapbox!" Vegas 216.) "Thrustmaster and Co really did go over the top with the Cougar, and I just cannot say enough good things about the Cougar. They aimed for the sky, and they hit the bullseye!" Slammin 215.) "For all of you that may be considering purchasing the Cougar but have been put off by the number of complaints or problems that appear on this or any other forum, please understand that I personally think the problems some people (myself included) have encountered with the Cougar is in the small minority. You must remember that there are a different zillion system configurations out there that the Cougar and any other piece of hardware you purchase must "adapt" to. As a result, there will be times when some guy upgrades his system like one of the recent posts on this forum and has problems. That's the way it goes with any piece of hardware. Every once in a while that printer that worked just fine on your old computer does nothing but stare back at you after you hook it up to your new system. We've all experienced this if we've been around computers very long. My problem was my fault, not the Cougar's. I thought it was something about the Cougar programmingaxisthingwhatever that I wasn't understanding, but it was my fault. Once I reset IL-2 Hardware Setup to Default after I had screwed it up real good, all was well and the Cougar worked like a charm. I've had it for 9 days now and am finding out how much more incredible it is with each passing day that I delve into it. Oh yeah, read the manual and look at every aspect of Foxy. James Hallows deserves some sort of medal for Foxy. I said all that to say this, the support behind the Cougar is amazing. No other joystick has support like the Cougar does, flat out. The Cougar itself is amazing. One post on here stated that the Cougar was like cheating (Amen to that brother) because it's so good and has so much capability right at your finger tips. I even programmed one of the buttons to activate Team Speak and Roger Wilco, that's groovy. No more fishing for the keyboard in the midst of an online dogfight. So, if you're thinking of investing in it, and it is as much of an investment into our hobby as a nice putter or driver is to a golfer, then do not fear. Buy it. It's awsome and there are plenty of folks on the net who can help if you get stuck. I just wanted to make a positive post about the Cougar. So many of them on here are problems and that's OK. I just want people that haven't made the plunge yet to know that the Cougar is the ONLY way to "fly"." Wayne "AirRock" Parker 214.) "I love my Cougar HOTAS. I appreciate all the things you are doing on your site to help Programming Dummies such as myself. Keep up the good work!!!!!" Michael V. Davis 213.) "Buy it, own it, love it, the Cougar is the best toy ... err ... investment you could make to improve your flying experience." Russell "Super-B" Buckwalter 212.) "Buy one! Or two, like I did. Well worth an investment, as they are truly user-configurable with regard to feel and functionality. Wanna change the throttle detent positions and stiffness? Have at it. Springs too tight/not tight enuff fer ya? Plenty of threads out here to help you in your quest. Want a truly custom file for your favorite functions on your favorite buttons? NP! There's plenty of 'em with the Cougar when you buy AND from this site as downloads. Add to that the incredible level of support and encouragement from everyone on this forum, you have a joystick that feels and acts like a real joystick should! Buy it!" AhJaDa 211.) "You DEFINITELY should buy a Cougar! We love our Cougars. The high-end market is VERY, VERY, picky. It's very fun tweaking our Cougars to get them to perform in a way that suits our individual needs, and the Cougar is the only setup since the F-22 Pro that is built to allow us to do that. Also, you're not just buying the Cougar, your joining a community." evmiller 210.) "Foxy Sucks ... all of my time away from everything else. I find myself just sitting around and clicking things ... playing with the analyzer, tweaking files and such, more than I fly. TM couldn't have made a better choice for programming software! I reinstalled Win2k Friday and didn't remember until too late that Foxy was on my C: drive ... at first I was pissed cause I lost my profiles. After I started rewriting them though, I was almost glad I lost them. After living with the Saitek stuff for almost two years, Foxy is truly a breath of fresh air. Thanks James, You Rock!!!" Zachnefein 209.) "I have a Saitek X36 USB combo that I was quite happy with. Software sorted etc. It worked my sims well. Bought the Cougar and was pleasantly surprised. Really up to another level with an extra dimension of tactile immersion. The solid metal feels like an aircraft control. My other sticks feel like plastic joysticks. I feel I'm hanging on to a Spitfire or F16, not a plastic computer control. The Cougar programming is very much a case of you'll get out of it what you put in. Incredibly flexible. If you don't enjoy programming, then there's more than enough good profiles around." Outflanker 208.) "My new Cougar arrived last Thursday and I'm just getting to grips with it. It is beautifully made and I'm very favourably impressed so far." John L "Viper" Merriman 207.) "I just bought one and love it. Other than a few minor programming issues that I had to sort out it's been flawless. I haven't experienced the problems that some are having, it seems random depending on system config's. You will love the programmability, I only need to use the keyboard for a few keys not needed often." Grouser 206.) "I haven't really had much time to get to grips with my Cougar since it arrived but I am amazed at the build quality - it puts the old FLCS and TQS into the shade - what's more I think I paid just about as much as the Cougar now costs for the pair of them. It isn't often these days that manufacturers of ANY product actually build something more expensive from their point of view than the previous model. I must say that when Thrustmaster was purchased by Guillemot, I feared this was the end of HOTAS controller development as I knew and loved it. How wrong I was." Chris "Viper" Wright 205.) "One word ... HOT DAMN! OK so two words. This Cougar is excellent, precise, mind-bogglingly difficult to understand its programming (Thank God for Foxy and others who are smarter at this than me), steady and just darn cool! I have heard some of the complaints and they are probably valid, but for me I am flying better than I ever had. The only hard part is remember what button or hat to actuate on the HOTAS. I feel like I am new to all my sims now. Now, I just need to wait for my F15 or SU-27 stick to add to this great stick. Thanks Cougar team!" Overkill 204.) "I retired a perfectly good CH Fighterstick combo and replaced it with the Cougar, and boy am I NOT sorry!" John "Pitts" Gilding 203.) "As a former Saitek X36 user, I would never even consider going back!" Vegas 202.) "It is easily the best $300 computer related purchase I've ever made ... its operation is flawless ... the precision is amazing ... everything works like a charm ... I was concerned about the center play ... it's there ... but in a sim, it's non-existent. Once I unplugged the control stick from its based while it was still plugged in ... upon being reconnected the buttons were mixed up ... all it took to fix it was to unplug and reconnect the USB cable to my PC and everything was back to normal ... it's very forgiving. From my perspective this is not a delicate piece of hardware ... but rather a robust piece of engineering that works as designed." Andy "Salsa" Rosales 201.) "Ask not whether to buy, but how many to buy ;) I bought 3 for 2 computers and am trying to get the money to finish building the 3rd one. Cougars are so friggin' precise that you won't believe it, talk about flying NOE --- man that's so fun now I go low for no reason at all but the fun of it and because I can do it now with confidence. That is the sort of thing the Cougar is about. Plus more. So I don't know a reason not to get one or more if you can get the money." Axe 200.) "I have just received my Cougar and WOW!!!!! What a set of well made sticks!!!!!!" Brent "Draco" Gagne 199.) "The great part about the Cougar is, when you are ready to get a bit more complex, it is ready to go with you; when you are ready to get really complex, the functionality is there. The Cougar grows with you. As your experience increases and you get more and more comfortable with it and think to yourself "now, if I could only make it do *this*" ... and lo - you can! Example: The Cougar has a shift function that basically doubles all other buttons. Nothing difficult about that ... a button on the throttle behaves a certain way (designates a target) with the shift button out ... and behaves a different way (left mouse click) with the shift button in. Well ... how to undesignate a target with the same button? I set out to design a solution around pressing and holding the button for a half a second to perform the undesignate. I programmed a solution ... and asked for help at the Cougar boards. Some kind folks there helped me and now I have a bit more efficient solution to the problem than my original solution offered ... and I learned a bit about programming the Cougar, too. The functionality of the Cougar is there when you are ready to use it. The Cougar community is there to help you learn. What more could you ask?" Sierra 198.) "The Cougar is worth every penny you pay for it (and more). Up until yesterday at 1700 I had never owned, touched or seen a TM stick. I had some experience programming with SGE. But between all the help built into Foxy and the excellent manual, anybody can easily learn to program the Cougar." Speedo 197.) "I saw the first glimpse of the Cougar in Nov. 2001. It arrived in April and since then I never regretted my investment. For me the Cougar gives a totally new dimension to flightsims (esp. Falcon 4). I can't imagine Falcon without it any more. I know that you read a lot of criticism about the Cougar in this forum, but that's always the case. People with problems ask for help or criticize the product. I think that the majority of the Cougar owners like me are very pleased to own it (understatement). So why would they post, they're too busy playing with their baby! If you can buy one just do it, I don't think you'll ever regret it and I think it'll be a long while before you have to think about buying another controller (not like the X36)." Hans "Runner" Schipper 196.) "You won't find a control setup like this anywhere else. You could say that 300 bucks is a lot, and it is, but you get more than you pay for. Any other regular joystick, if you break it, you gotta buy a new one. When I used to have the FLCS & TQS, my FLCS started acting erratically, and Thrustmaster sent me new pots, free of charge. Look at this website. Look at the board. I have seen very few products with this level of support and interaction between community and company ... and never for controllers. So the point is you´re buying into a family, and you´ll not be left alone if you have a problem. US$300 for the Cougar? It´s you that is ripping TM off, not the other way around." Roland 195.) "The Foxy program is actually a very big improvement from previous versions. The way it's laid out and the fantastic help and wizard features are even better. I also like the fact that it automatically reloads the last file you were working on ... a real mouse click saver. I never did have the digital chip installed in my old flcs so I'm enjoying digital for the first time. An example of how this has improved things is that I was having trouble with a series of commands going from the pilot position to the bombadier postion, dropping a bomb and going back to the pilot's position. Other stick inputs would mess this up with the non-digital set up. Now it works flawlessly and quickly and has immediately improved my bombing accuracy. There simply is no better set up than this ... period. All the rest look and feel like cheap toys in comparison." KC23 - SimHQ 194.) "I own both the CH Fighterstick/Pro throttle, and a recently purchased Cougar. I use CH pro pedals (gameport) with both. After using the Cougar for 3 weeks I must say that the Cougar is in a class by itself. I feel that it is well worth what I paid for it. The hardware, calibration, and programming software are excellent. It installed without a hitch. Programming the Cougar is about as difficult as learning a new sim. It's really not difficult, and gives you tremendous HOTAS control, i.e. more control options than CH Speed Keys give you. However, if you still don't want to learn there are plenty of Lock and Load profiles to use." Vox 193.) "It's going to be tough to get an unbiased opinion from anyone using a TM Cougar (myself included). The Cougar is simply the best HOTAS product on the market - period." Skyhawk 192.) "The COUGAR by ThrustMaster gets a big thumbs up as the most sophisticated and advanced HOTAS ever produced for the PC market. The precision, the smoothness, the reliability, the ruggedness and the amazing level of programmability surpasses anything ever produced. Nothing else comes close." SimHQ review by Dan "Crash" Crenshaw Read the full review at SimHQ here. 191.) "Thnxs to the whole team for a great website. You certainly made the decision to buy a Cougar easier, seeing all the effort and help that goes on with the TM Community." Helmut "Colonel" Skrdla 190.) "I can honestly say this IS the sweetest stick I've ever owned." Gunner 189.) "Ever since I got my Cougar I've played more sims than I ever have! My skin has gone pale, my friends don't visit anymore and my girlfriend left me for a CH user! All because this damn stick is so good I can't stop playing!" Kevin "Revvin" Watts 188.) "A note of appreciation for the website and related information. Thank goodness. It has saved my life (virtually speaking) ...." 352nd Persecutor 187.) "I was quite happy with my Saitek but shiny new toys attract older boys. Imagine my surprise to discover - Tactile Immersion. A metal interface actually improves my immersion. It "feels" like a fighter, unlike the "plastic" sensation of older sticks that suggest economy in a jumbo!" OutFlanker 186.) "Another proud member in the Cougar-Owners-club: ME! Runs well, installation by manual took 5 minutes, real plug'n'play." Jörg "Frostpfote" Faber 185.) "The HOTAS wars are over ... Cougar is the way to go. There are many programs out there already, in addition to the dozens that the stick comes with, so its unlikely that you need to do much if any programming at all. I tinker with the setup and find it very easy." Ghost 184.) "I am somewhat surprised and more than happy with the quality of my brand new “Kitten”. With some trepidation, I inspected the speed brake and dogfight switches ... OK!!!. (In fact, they look and work ... perfectly). I then started down the rest of the list of things that I have read on Frugal’s forum. I found nothing wrong. Better, what I did find was, much higher quality than expected. Some of the pictures in “Frugal’s forum” are good enough to give anyone an idea of the high quality of the Cougar. Thrustmaster has truly made a superior product. Do not take it that I am cutting “Frugal’s Cougar Forum”. Quite the opposite. The information in the forum is what sold me on the Cougar. The GOOD and the Bad! If it had been all GOOD, I would not have believed it." R W "Topkelley" Kelley 183.) "I'm very satisfied with the Cougar. Everything installed for me without a problem. This is my second HOTAS, and my first TM product. Overall, I'm very impressed with the quality of the stick, throttle, and software. I am used to a softer stick, but I find I like the stiffer, heavier feel of the Cougar much better. For me the Cougar is well worth the cost." Vox 182.) "This cougar is Awesome!! Everything works out of the box ... the center play is barely perceptible when not playing ... and not perceptable at all when actually in a sim ... all buttons work. The Brake switch works as designed ... momentary when pulled toward you and not-momentary when pushed away from you ... Right now ... I couldn't be happier. From a mechanical and an aesthetic perspective, it's obvious the Cougar is a superior combination of art and engineering." Andy "Salsa" Rosales 181.) "Arrived next day, PERFECT condition, no scratches, no loose buttons, no missing items, nothing like that. Made a minor adjustment to the detents to space them out more, downloaded the latest f/w and ccp. If it was possible to be in love with an inanimate object I would be, but it's not REALLY possible (is it?) so I'll just settle for OVERJOYED and AMPED! These controllers ROCK!!!! Spring tension doesn't affect me at all, as my stick springs right back to center (slightly noticeable play, maybe 1-2 mm each way at most, but no negative impact) and are they SMOOTH!! Kudos all around to EVERYONE involved with this project!" AhJaDa 180.) "This is the finest piece of hardware I've ever owned ... I've looked it over for what seemed to be endlessly and it's flawless ... I'm very proud to own one and thank all of Thrustmaster for going to such lengths to make it. As many here have said, "It was well worth the wait" ... simply unbelievable ... really great work TM ... Thank You." Eric "DizzyRox" England 179.) "I did get my Cougar on Tuesday and it is just great. TM/G did a fantastic job, I can’t believe how much better it is than my old Thrustmaster combo. And James, I have been using Foxy a good deal over the past few days and am very pleased with it---great, quality job. It definitely makes programming the Cougar a lot easier (and more fun) than the old Thrustmaster software." valdor17 178.) "The damn thing works like a charm and is amazing to use in every way." Will "Reschke" Nichols 177.) "In the past I've used a couple of controllers (mostly TM) but this nice cat is the top! The accuracy and the smooth behaviour is unbelievable." Dug 176.) "Well, the Cougar arrived yesterday, and I can see why it cost $$ just by the build of the stick and throttle! FYI, not a single mechanical issue with mine: all switches were in 1 piece, stick play is almost nil(if not nil). It installed in a few minutes without a single hiccup. Everything works in XP without issues or conflicts. Oh my, the programming software is heaven!! Programmed my sticks for FS2002 today. What a joy to have the software do what I want it to. You have a choice: Use GUI all the way for each and every switch and 90% of the advanced options. Helper apps can be used to guide you step by step, or you can just use the GUI tools, which are mostly self-explanatory. Or, if you have done TM programming before, you can type in the commands manually, and only use the GUI helpers when your memory has failed you. The software is brilliant, and the options are endless. The manual was written by someone who thinks like us, so details and examples are perfect in getting to understand some of the advanced options. Download your code, and close all the Cougar apps if you want. No software running to cause problems. These sticks feel awesome in the hand! I have 2 things I'll have to get used to: Stick tension will take a while to get comfortable with after using the X36; The throttle detent noise will take some getting used to. So, my marks are: - Hardware design = 90% (will go up after get over the 2 issues above) - Software for System support= 95% - Software for Programming = 98% (When I have these sticks in my hands it really reminds me of sitting in a cockpit, love the feel of cold metal!) Can't go wrong with the Cougar!" ianq 175.) "I got mine yesterday. The unit is really heavy and literally cool to the touch (all metal). I think you will love yours. I have to say that this baby is fast and precise. It is actually making a difference in my flying (been shooting approaches in FS2K2). With my old setup I would often bobble, trying to correct. My approaches have been smooth." Talon 174.) "Well my broken Cougar has finally been replaced. I picked it up at TM's Montréal office and had the privilege of meeting David "The Block" Block. He is a great guy and instrumental in finally getting my replacement unit along with Dimebug and James Hallows. Dave is hard at work addressing little and obscure bugs. It is nice to see people like him helping our community. Thanks David!" Blazer 173.) "I have not had time to fully test out Cougar and all that it comes with, however, my first impressions are that it is a great product. I have downloaded the Longbow 2 file and everything seems to work just fine and in the game. As far as quality, I have not found any defects in craftsmanship or design. The most amazing thing, in my opinion, is how advanced it looks and feels compared to my F-22 Pro. I remember when I first received my F-22 and how impressed I was. Now, when I compare the Cougar, the F-22 seems like a toy. (I almost feel bad saying that, because the F-22 has served me well and in its time was the best of the best). I think this stick is a winner. I would have paid more for it than I did. Thanks Thrustmaster!" dsu 172.) "Wow, talk about metal! Now I can see why it was so $$. Wow #2: Having had a gameport js before, was shocked to see how rock-solid the axes are in Control Panel. So used to my X36 and the non-stop movement." ianq 171.) "Probably the best computer peripheral I ever bought. I’m going to have to learn how to fly Falcon 4 all over again but what a blast learning." Tim "Warhawk" Bartels 170.) "Just finished reading the beginner's tutorials on / button modifiers. WOW! What a wonderful job the programmers have done not only in designing the programs [Foxy in particular] but in explaining how to use the various parts. As an old [truly old age 70] retired educator I appreciate the use of the King's English. Again, well done one and all." Richard Brown 169.) "You guys are doing a great job with the HOTAS. Quite simply the most impressive project of this scale I've seen." Alan - Asia Flight Simulation Centre 168.) "I am elated with my Cougar. I don't have one single issue with the outstanding job TM, Guillemot, you and everyone else involved have done. If no one else mentions it; thank you for all of your time and effort on a job well done!" Jeff Hunt 167.) "The Cougar may be expensive, but I honestly think it's worth it. Even if they upped the price $100 more dollars, it would be worth it. The software with the Cougar is fantastic. Best decision TM made was to use Foxy for programming, since most of us would have migrated to it anyway. Plus, where else are you going to get a metal joystick? :)" James "Pale" Woods 166.) "Thanks to all of you at Cougar World!! #5900 just arrived today, & it is a real blessing to have all your FAQ's & install guides. Thanks again!!!" Peter "Deadmeat" Stoneham 165.) "This product is awesome. The best ever. They should win an award for this." Alan R. "Hawkeye" Amundson 164.) "I've been a TM flyer and a Foxy, Fox Pro, and Digital Foxy customer for many years. It was a big risk to tackle this high end stuff considering how relatively limited the boiled down hard core market size has turned out to be. I'm sure all of us who have been involved with PC simming from the beginning appreciate the effort. I know I do. Thank you." Christian "Lizard Jockey" Olsen 163.) "I have been reading Frugal's board every day since I ordered my kitty. I must say I was quite apprehensive about the quality of the product when reading many of the posts. After dropping $300 on a joystick, nothing short of perfection is what one would expect. I had my check list of concerns out as I put the throttle and stick on a well lit table for close inspection: First, the red WPN button was off, not a good start. But after inspection I was pleased with the design of how the button was connected. Just pick it up, push it on. A simple wedge connection. No screws, clips, threads, nothing to break, lose or strip, very nice. Paint was perfect. No flaws whatsoever. Joystick center play. Where!? This stick is so much tighter then my Saitek or Precision Pro it's not funny. I can't believe this is even an issue (I know others sticks might be different than mine). Spring Stiffness: Not that stiff, but not loose either, ah just right (I know everyone has their own taste). Jerky Throttle: Not here, smooth as a baby's butt. Center Detents on the ANT ELEV and MAN RNG: Mine seem just right, not too big but very noticeable. Afterburner and Idle Detents: I was expecting some huge noise that would wake the neighbors! Not here, I think I will just leave them as is. Buttons: All seem tight and in working condition. As I went over each of these items one by one a very, very large smile came over my face that for the love of God I could just not get off. All my concerns were dead and buried. I know others might not be having as good an experience as I have had, and hope they can get their concerns addressed. But for those of you who have been undecided on whether to buy a Cougar because of some negative posts, don't." Dale "Crow{decaf}" Bunger 162.) "Cougar unpacked - Serial No. 04463 reporting for duty!! All appears to be in perfect condition, nothing missing, all buttons in place and no scratches apparent, standard amount of freeplay which actually feels nice! Some of the button operations feel a little odd, but that is no doubt just because there's a big difference between this and a Saitek X36 ;) Rock solid base, hell, gotta stop typing and get on with fondlin ... I mean unpacking my Kitty." Don "KODIAK" McKee 161.) "Only 4 hours after opening the box, I was able to modify my existing Digital F22/TQS file, load it up and logged into Warbirds 3 for some smoooth flying. Nice job TM!" FliNvr 160.) "A pretty impressive product. Definitely worth the wait. Good job, TM!" John "Pitts" Gilding 159.) "Well, after using the F22 and TQS with Bob Church's digital chips, I could not understand how anyone could come up with anything better. In my mind it is a great setup. However, after using the Cougar for a day and seeing how smoothly it operates, it's a pure joy! Well worth the money. I hate to kick my old TM stuff to the curb but the Cougar is simply awesome! Don't take my word for it, get your hands on one - you won't want to let go! The new Foxy is a delight to work with as well. James, TM, Paula and Aaron of FCS have all done a great job, thankyou :)" Lee "OPFOR" Palmer Jr 158.) "As for the Cougar ... What more can I say? This sucker flat out rocks." Will "Reschke" Nichols 157.) "After a couple of hours with IL-2 and my new Cougar, I've found that I can actually practice 'sniping' techniques now where I couldn't before. With the F-22, I lined up the best I could and fired, with maybe a 40% success rate, especially when sneaking up from behind. Just hitting was difficult enough, and targeting specific points on the enemy aircraft was out of the question. With the Cougar, not only am I now hitting with probably 80% of my bursts, I'm easily able to aim for specific parts of the enemy aircraft and hit them with a good degree of reliability. It's an entirely different experience now. Since I doubt my gunnery skills improved that drastically overnight, and the only thing that's changed is the joystick, I've no reason to doubt that the Cougar is largely responsible for my new found accuracy and precision. I'm overcontrolling less, and the easier pull of the springs and the higher resolution of the Cougar's pots compared to the F-22 means that small, subtle inputs are now picked up by the stick. I no longer have to put in a large stick deflection to move my sight picture just a little. Beyond that, my overall flying is much smoother now, which I atrribute to the high-res pots. I had no idea they'd make such a difference, but they do." Blackbird 156.) "Arrived in pristine condition from Gamestop, setup was a snap, firmware flash no problem. Flew IL2 smooth as silk. A big thank you to James and the rest of the gang, reading all the help files in this forum were a great asset to a HOTAS newbie." Nailer 155.) "I'm impressed. Deeply. I've just started to nose around the new software, a thing of beauty." Roger Morris 154.) "Just wanted to say that I am very happy with the Cougar. I am more or less a HOTAS newbie (brief fling with a Saitek), and the Cougar is everything that I imagined it would be and would want a controller to be. Bravo to TM for such a fine piece of high-end hardware. I also wanted to add thanks and appreciation for the wonderful site you have here at Cougar World. Tons of info, helpful people in the forums, and a plethora of profiles to download for those of us who are new to the programming side of controllers. Thanks for your hardwork!" Bill "Mathman" Barritt 153.) "I'm currently estatic with my Cougar purchase. I had to overcome the fear, uncertainty, and doubt over the initial investment of a fairly substantial chunk o' change (for me anyway) before finally joining the Cougar collective. Now that I have been assimilated my worries and cares are gone. It arrived in perfect working order. Inside the box was the COUGAR HOTAS, gleaming black metal, feeling as solid and rugged as any piece of military gear I've had the pleasure to handle. Unlike all the other joysticks I've ever owned, the Cougar doesn't have the rough, plastic feel they possessed. The throttle arm moves smoothly, and settles into the detents with an audible "thunk". Hats and switches move a little more stiffly than their F22 counterparts, but with less play and more tactile feedback when the throw limit is reached. Joystick does have a little play around center position, but I never noticed it during flying. As a pessimist, I was sure that there would be teething pains. Wrong. Install went virtually perfectly. The heavier base of the Cougar made it much easier to make more precise movements with the stick. BoB provides both sim and realistic settings for joystick control. I tried them both. I could easily control the aircraft in either mode. Every switch, knob, axis crisp. I think that because of the greater precision of the Cougar's joystick readings, I'm less likely to overcontrol because I think I need to add more roll or up/down elevator. I really believe I'm starting to fly a little better. My initial reservations are gone. I've dropped any concerns I had about the price of the Cougar. Value is in the eyes of the owner, and Cougar meets my personal price/value criterion. Although I've had my F22/TQS combo for about six years (I think), I retire it with no regrets. The Cougar is that good. You will begin to judge all other joysticks by the Cougar standard and find the others lacking. Eventually, you too, will be assimilated by the Cougar Collective." Bob Mercer 152.) "Cougar #04291 arrived late this afternoon and I just got finished hooking it up and playing around with it for about 30 minutes. It is truly one incredible piece of hardware. I thought the F22 was amazing, and it was, but compared to the Cougar ... I just can't say how far and beyond my expectations the Cougar is. If this is a sign of the things to come from Guillemot, put me down for one of everything high-end from this point on. I couldn't be happier with my Cougar purchase. Well, I suppose I could, but I can't reasonably expect Guillemot/TM to provide the rest of the F-16 to go with it ;)" Blackbird 151.) "My Cougar HOTAS was just delivered a few days ago and it alone kicks butt! I work with computers every day but when I saw what was going to be involved in setting up the Cougar with my favorite sims I was feeling slightly overwhelmed. Then after Foxy was installed I sighed with relief and thought - Man, whoever created this program ROCKS!!!! I don't like everything the easy way but this sure did save some years on my life. I've already lost enough hair from other things. Hey! By gosh, after installing Foxy I think I see a couple of new hairs sprouting up. Great job on the program and keep up the excellent work!" Daniel L. "Darkhorse41" Hart 150.) "Had it now for several days. OUTRAGEOUS, you are going to like it, guaranteed. Have flown more in last 3 days than in the past 3 weeks." rookie1200 149.) "Arrived today. Installed, reflashed firmware, patched Foxy. No probs. All axes, buttons, hats worked perfectly out of the box. Boy, was the Cougar smooth. At first I was overcontrolling, but got used to handling it in a smoother style than I had with the F22. And although I thought it was BS that the same springs would feel "lighter" on the cat vs the F22 - it's true. Much easier to move this joystick. So chalk up another very satisfied kitty user." Bob Mercer 148.) "OMG I'm breathless!!! What immediately struck me the most was the sheer weight and sleek black look, simply unbelievable. After performing a complete once over, removing plates, checking buttons etc., all is in excellent working order." Jeff "Terminator" Euclid 147.) "Cougar #4743 arrived at my door step today. A visual inspection has revealed no flaws or blemishes. The craftsmanship looks great. I have been using the F-22 set up for over three years. The Cougar looks and feels miles ahead." dsu 146.) "Just got #1765 and apart from being a lame programmer everything is just great ... - no play - awesome build quality - everything works - installation flawless Well done Thrustmaster !" Murray "Moray" Lalor 145.) "This is one amazing piece of gear!" David "Mad Mac" Macherey 144.) "Outstanding piece of work, exceeding my expectations and worth double what I paid." Mick "Ubermick" Smothers 143.) "#4680 is now home. Outstanding achievement to all the crew!" Jim "Cass" Cassidy 142.) "Kitty has a new home, she is flawless in workmanship. WTG TM (as always). I have only owned TM Gear since I started simming in 1995. All pro's and con's aside they are the best controllers by far in the world. MD "Cannon 257th" Kyte 141.) "James, Foxy is a work of art! What exactly do they teach in dental school? Should I be going to my dentist for programming questions?" Chris "OddBall" Whitbread 140.) "I just wanted to say Thank You to Thrustmaster for making such a kick A$$ HOTAS !! Thank You to James Hallows, Fruity, and everyone else involved with this site and forum, for Cougar World, and this forum ! (I visited this site and forum daily while awaiting my Cougar !! It really helped pass the time !)" Randy "RaD1!" Allen 139.) "3 Words come to mind: Oh My God!!! I've read what others have posted, but this thing still has me in awe." James "Pale" Woods 138.) "I received my Cougars this past week and have had a chance to give it a good go. My first impression is that the Cougar represents "Absolute Perfection!" in a game controller setup. The Cougar came with a 183 page manual and it can do things that many of us had never even dreamed of. One of my #2 buttons was loose in the package when I opened it, however it simply snapped into place and worked perfectly. I think part of the problem is the weight of the Cougar and the handling that they are getting in shipping. When you throw a box that weighs 18 lbs around something is liable to become dislodged. All in all my Cougars were packed very well and arrived in great shape. There is a bit of play at the center - not as much as I had with my F22pro and nothing like the X36 or X45's that I've owned. It's completely unnoticable during use and alot to do about nothing in my opinion. Grab your X36/X45 with two fingers and see how much play there is at it's center position before it actually moves an axis then imagine that play being about 1/8 or 1/10th of that. That is how my Cougar feels. The overall quality of the Cougar is superb! This thing will easily outlast several computers and most probably the desk they're sitting on. Installation out of the box was a snap! Imagine - no proprietary Drivers to load!!!!! To be honest, there are several HID compliant USB drivers that show up in the Windows Device Manager when you plug the Cougar in, however they are standard Windows drivers and you'll find nothing there that says Cougar or Thrustmaster. The result is that after having the Cougar plugged into my system for a week I have not experienced one compatability problem of any kind. You plug it in and it works - interesting concept. The only changes that I have made to the Cougar hardware was to reset the position of the throttle detents and loosen the screws on the bottom of the throttle to allow it to move in a smoother manner with less effort. This was very easy to accomplish and took less than 5 minutes to do. The weight and feel are very noticable and will require an adjustment period for those used to controllers such as an X36/X45. Since I had and used a F22pro for many years I personally find the Cougar to have about the same stiffness or feel - perhaps slightly lighter. In any case it will take some getting used to after using other light feeling controllers. The Button/Hat action or movement is much different than the F22pro. The buttons on the F22pro were very stiff and moved only slightly. The Cougar Hats have more throw in their movement, resulting in a feeling that is a little more mushy than the F22pro but overall the feel it a good one. The buttons have a very definite action and feel perfect. The smoothness and feel of the Cougar is really quite amazing. I have Bob Church's outstanding Digital chip conversion in my F22pro/TQS and was very pleased with it. I didn't believe that the Cougar would be that much of an improvement, however it is noticable. The Cougar Foxy programming software is equally amazing. I've spent the last couple of days refining my IL2 profile and it is unbelievable what you can do with this controller. Some of the interesting things I've achieved with the Cougar in my IL2 profile are: 1. Programmed the WEP function to engage/disengage at the upper throttle detent. 2. Create a script where the first press of the S2 button opens the Map and places the mouse cursor in the center of the map. The mouse cursor is then controlled by the Microstick on the throttle. Pressing the S2 button while holding the S3 or pinky shift button changes the map range and pressing in on the Microstick while moving it moves or changes the orientation of the map. Pressing the S2 button a second time closes the Map window and allows the Microstick to pan the views around as is normally done with the mouse. 3. I am able to lower the sensitivity of the Joystick axis on the fly in flight to gain better control of planes that are more sensitive to fly such as the Mig. 4. When I change to the gunner view with one button I am able to increase the mouse axis sensitivity, change the mouse axis to be operated by the joystick and the trigger is changed to the left mouse button for firing the machine gun. Changing back to the normal cockpit view resets the joystick, mouse sensitivity and trigger to their normal X/Y trigger functions. 5. I have the elevator trim mapped to the Antenna rotary knob through the IL2 control panel but felt it was too sensitive, so I was able to desensitize only that axis for use in the profile. I could go on but I think this will give you a good idea of just what is possible with the Foxy software and the Cougar and I haven't even scratched the surface yet! Overall I'm very pleased and impressed with every aspect of the Cougar. I realize the price is steep as well as the learning curve, however I have spent much more than this through several Saitek controllers in the past and having something work this well out of the box causing no problems on my system is as the commercial says..... "Priceless" :)" Ron Hunt 137.) "I have upgraded from the X-36 to the Cougar, and I'll never look back, ever. The Cougar is a whole different kind of experience. The programming is in some ways quite similar to Hazardscript, only a bit simpler in some places and more powerful due to the slash modifiers. The logic programming is also something that is not found on the X-36 (although in most cases you don't need it, it can do some pretty neat stuf like complicated timing functions and extra mode changes). The spring tension is much higher, and needs some getting used to. The metal feel is very nice. Although a bit cold a first, it is very comfortable after a while. With the X-36 I had several unfixable problems like random disconnection, axes that were wrongly centered. The Cougar doesn't have these on a regular basis, and if they do occur it can be solved with the push of a button. The Cougar is way more robust than the X-36. This is the only real stick for me now. About the price: It's well worth it as far as I'm concerned. And although its price is three to four times as high as the X-36, the difference in quality makes me think that the X-36 is more expensive because it needs to be replaced far more often, and lacks the robustness of the Cougar." ocf81 136.) "I've never had a Saitek as I always thought they looked / felt a little toyish in comparision to the F22 (no offence). Now I have my Cougar my well loved F22 feels toyish - it's a huge leap and the most improvement I've ever had in sims for the price. Much more satisfying than any a new cpu or vid card I've had. The HOTAS is your only physical contact point with your flight sim - the feel of these things makes that contact something very special indeed." Paul "Jagstang" Joy 135.) "WhooHoo. Well worth the wait. It is amazing to feel the difference from my Digital F16 FLCS / TQS. First impressions are simple amazement with the sticks, now on to learning about them. For the record, no slop, detents are fine, paint is pristine and all buttons firmly attached." Paul "Talon" Pearson 134.) "My Cougar finally arrived. Getting it home and opening the box, I was totally blown away. And like a lot of others I just sat there, staring at it. Wow, the cold steel felt so substantial in my hands. By far, the nicest touch is the labels - it really adds character and style to the units, especially the throttle. I always wondered how the cursor control would feel, and I'm really impressed. The throw of the stick and all of the switches are really smooth and really solid. And from first impressions, the design of the switches may make diagonal movements much more precise and easy. To be honest, I've been away from here for some time - part of that has been work-related, but part of it was all the negative threads I've seen regarding the units. I think I made the right choice. For example, a lot of people have been reporting about a small bit of free-play in the stick at center. Yep, I've got it too, but I don't think it's anything to be concerned about - unlike the impression I've been getting from here. I mean - it's really tiny. I don't know, maybe mine's better than others, I don't know - but so far I've been pleased. Even if I do encounter problems, I know there's a lot of great people here who'll be able to help out. You guys at TM (and outside of TM) seem to have done a hell of a job. I just need to stop staring at it long enough to hook it up :)" Corsair 133.) "My recommendation is this. If you haven't gotten a Cougar yet, don't be a fool! GET ONE! GET ONE FAST! Worth every penny." Eric "Evy" Miller 132.) "Nutty, this program defines the term User Friendly. It is an excellent form of communication, and a very useful application. Thanks!" josf 131.) "Got mine today! What a beautiful piece of hardware, and the hat switches have a fantastic feel to 'em, as do the all metal handles." Matt Hoffman 130.) "Having upgraded from a digital FLCS/TQS I was initially shocked at the spring tension of the Cougar, but after a few weeks hard use everything is sweet. Either I've got used to it or the springs have bedded in. The feedback of the stick is now spot on and I wouldn't change it for anything. The best £250 I've ever spent on a computer!" Colin "Georgio" Eaton 129.) "I just wanted to say how I feel now the honeymoon period is over with my cougar. I wouldn't swap it for the world! Seriously, I luckily haven't had any of the problems that have appeared on the board (slimey paint etc). I can safely say it's the best piece of hardware I've bought bang for bucks wise. The only problem I've had, is getting it to work in older progs and space sims. Sometimes the stick refuses to be picked up by those games. But in more modern sims (like IL2) this kit is great. It's helped me actually get kills and to stay airborne, which my Saitek never did. I just had to say that I'm still in love with this thing. If you don't have a Cougar yet, get one, you won't regret it." OrLoK 128.) "I own a F22/TQS, and I now have the Cougar. The throws of the hats are larger, but easier. When you move to a position, you're moving to a position, whereas the F22 has a much smaller throw area. The hats feel, right. Not that the F22 was bad. It's just better now. The Pinky switch is larger, and I like that. Allowing the S3 button (or any other button that acts as the Shift) to toggle is pure genius. The mouse joystick on the throttle is MUCH better. I mean MUCH better. That little nub on the F22, while the standard mouse of the day, just does not compare to having a full blown hat to manipulate the microstick. The spring tension on the Cougar is right. All in all, the Cougar is the F22 and more. Progamming allows for many more functions and features. Way more flexible. I keep getting neat ideas on things to do. All in all, a good upgrade from the F22/TQS system." LoneRegister 127.) "For anyone thinking of cancelling their Cougar order DON'T!!!!!! There is nothing even remotely in the same league, you will regret it big time. Comparing a Cougar to a CH stick is like comparing an Aston Martin to a Fiat! If you're on this board you must be a keen flight simmer, keen enough to appreciate the masterpiece that is the Cougar. The product is the greatest stick and throttle ever made and is well worth any wait..." Jonathan "Saxon" Gorse 126.) "Both units in one piece, about 3mm of left-right wiggle in the stick, no peeling paint...immaculate and damned heavy. Really feels like £250 worth. I've had a quick go on IL2 with it and it works beautifully. Rang TM in the UK and they are sending me a new spring and pot for my 7 year old RCS, for free! I feel my set is as expected...a fine bit of kit. TM customer support is like something out of the dark ages...they're sending me free bits for my RCS that broke seven years ago. So I'm confident they'll deal with any Cougar issues that may arise down the road, like an upgraded gimbal set etc. Yes, I'm very happy with the stick and throttle but I'm more impressed with the customer support for an ancient RCS. All in all TM rock and I'll be recommending their products to the guys on my site. Excellent kit, superlative customer care." Siggi 125.) "I am shelving all three of my F-22 Digital set ups and replacing them with 3 COUGAR set ups instead. By far the best HOTAS I have ever used, precise, way programmable and with a great smooth feel." Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw 124.) "Cougar IS the BEST from all the controllers available on the market, and I seriously doubt there will be something better for many years to come! There is only one downside to the Cougar and that is parts for the gimbal mechanism not being manufactured good enough! I say "not good enough!" because everything else about Cougar (handle and throttle) is simply SUPERB! Even though it has this gimble mechanism imperfection (which is fixable) it is worth every $$$! The fact is that I have not seen ONE person on here saying they've regretted buying the Cougar!!!" Edin "KUKY" Kulelija 123.) "Get the Cougar now, it's an order!!! You shouldn't wait or you won't be able to get one in the future and you'll regret it for the rest of your life :)" Nesher 122.) "I find myself loving these HOTAS more and more each day. They add a completely new dimension to flightsimming." 600 Nitro-Express 121.) "James, outstanding work here and on the Cougar site, never seen such support for a product before." Chris "Mower" Honke 120.) "I've never had a TM HOTAS before and no matter what I've read or what I've heard and seen, nothing could prepare me for THIS ! Perfect, poetry in ... metal ! I had some concerns about its paint, or loose buttons and HATs after reading some threads in this forum, but #01971 came in perfect condition. What a thrill !" Fondas "Wolverine" Nicolaou 119.) "I have to admit, waaaaaaaaaaaaw...It's beautiful, much much better than my wildest dreams. The programming flexibility is the finishing touch, this product together with the great Foxy software is an unbeatable configuration. With this beauty the sky is the limit. I can say, this is the best purchase I have made in my entire life and, to all devoted flightsimmers I have only 1 advice, if you are looking for the right stuff ..., don't hesitate, ... buy the Cougar. There is nothing better and more advanced on the whole market. This is the best value you can get for your money, the price is very reasonable. All my respects to the whole development team and all the people who supported you, I admire the work you have done, nobody else could have done a better job. Now I can stop dreaming about "the perfect HOTAS", because finally I have one." Luc "Lucky Luke" Van Eyseren 118.) "James, I'd just like to add what a great job you did on the Foxy software. I didn't need to pick up the manual for days as the wizards you wrote were extremely easy to follow and yielded great results with minimal effort. The only time I picked up the book was to read up on the analogue axis mapping. I've not come across such a neat easy-to-use yet powerful software package like this for a very very long time. You really did Thrustmaster proud!" Kevin "Revvin" Watts 117.) "All I can say is Wow!!!! This is truly an amazing setup. I am at a loss for words. James, I can already tell Foxy is going to be a joy to use as well as provide quite a bit of entertainment." Carl "Sartori23" Moore 116.) "This thing is a work of art! I am totally impressed with the craftsmanship of this rig. TM has definitely outdone itself again! My IL-2 kill ratio went up within hours, and I hardly expected that coming from an F-22/TWQ rig. The Cougar really is all it's hyped up to be and then some, and if you were using the old Foxy stuff, you are in for a very pleasant surprise with the new version as well." Slammin 115.) "This is just an awesome HOTAS. Thanks TM for making this a reality. I bow my head in respect." Mace 114.) "I am extremely happy with my purchase. I would like to congratulate everyone at Frugal's World, Cougar World and Thrustmaster on an excellent product." Ross "FullOn" Farquharson 113.) "It is truly a masterpiece! To all those who contributed in some way to its development, I say "thanks." I know I will be using it for many years to come." Killjoy12 112.) "The Cougar has been a fantastic purchase. I can't recommend it highly enough." Matt "Pizzicato" Armstrong 111.) "James, I must say you have put together one fine program in Foxy. Looks like you thought of everything and more." Lewis "Lucky" Luciano 110.) "Yesterday marked the passing of 35 days since I commissioned Cougar #1805. I feel that I'm now in a good position to reflect on the experience and to rate the product from my point of view. Pros Construction and build quality. I've had none of the problems that you can read about on this board. The castings and paintwork are flawless. The assembly quality is also excellent. All buttons and switches work and both the rotaries on the throttle have detents with a positive feel. Smoothness and accuracy. This kit redefines the concept of "controller" for me. Admittedly I don't have much to compare it with but the movement of most controls is precise with good tactile and pressure feedback. Programmability. Here the Cougar is without equal. The programming interfaces of the other controllers I use (and have used) are simply lame in comparison. The programming software is both comprehensive and easy to use. The documentation too is without equal in this market. Product Support. Both the formal and informal support for this product are exemplary. Here at Cougar World I've found an enthusiastic and knowledgeable bunch of contributors and I've learned a great deal from hanging out here the past couple of months. The TM staff who have assisted me with a couple of minor problems cannot be praised enough. They are truly great ambassadors for the company that employs them. Cons Control stick centre flop. I've decided that I don't like the way the stick's pressure "curve" drops off as you bring it back to centre. The transition from resistance to nothing is quite rapid and makes really fine corrections quite difficult. The reverse is true too of course (the move from no resistance to fierce resistance as you move the stick away from centre). This is something that I'll continue to work at getting used to. Minor software bugs. There have been a couple of problems with the supporting software that have cost me a few hours of doubting my sanity. Fortunately, they've been characterised and acknowledged by TM and fixes are in the pipeline. One minor and as yet ill-defined problem remains. It is a very minor irritation and in no way diminishes the functionality of the package. Throttle jerkiness. The throttle axle friction mechanism appears to be flawed as it is implemented on my unit. In spite of copious quantites of mysterious red greasy lubricant, fine adjustment of the throttle is impossible. Long throttle movements are smooth; short (micro) movements require too much pressure to "crack" the resistance and the resulting burst of energy when the inertia is overcome results in a positional overshoot. This leads to a very jerky motion when you are performing maneuvers that require precise throttle control (like landing and refuelling). I believe that a metal, rather than pla